THE PNAR FORUM - DISCUSS THE NEWS
I agree fully with Scout and B.i.B. Violent resistance is ABSOLUTELY out of the question. The systems are too well in place. Any violent action will be immediately subdued, and it will either be spun into obscurity or against our cause.
Information and the spread of ideas are the only possibilities for change. There is already a significant and growing organization that is calling for such radical change. It is called the Zeitgeist Movement, named after the documentary. No other piece of media has ever done more to change my view of the world. I truly believe that dissemination of this video is absolutely vital if any type of political or social change is to come about.
I posted another thread about the movie, but for some reason it has not received any responses. WATCH THIS MOVIE and please reply to my previous post!
Division(Divide to conquer) and Secrecy(required for deception) are the fuel of tyranny.
Division traditionally means setting the people against each other or removing the instinct to cooperate/help/defend others "them"; White vs Black, Religion vs R, right vs left, police vs population. The ultimate division is individualism, the me myself an I and screw the others attitude which is well rooted in the US where Unions were suppressed compounded by the inaction and isolation of the television. You can offset division by questioning prejudice, include others, agree to disagree with others while focusing on acting on the common ground, and most of all talk, at the kitchen table, in the bus, in line at the grocery, at the office, renew the bounds. Previous generation had the guts to land on beaches in hails of bullets we need the guts to say hello to a stranger in a cafe and talk about the situation, meet and organize.
An Aid to FDR said we were confronted with a controlled revolution(New Deal) or the overthrow of the capitalist system(the version where only he top benefied and lead to the GD). The GD people did not sit idlely has history is often thought, revolt was brewing, neighbours stuck together chasing out any repo men that came to reposses any neighbor in their area, workers talked of taking possession of factories. In France its the government that fears the people and the people dont hesitate to go on massive strikes when the gov craps on them(they have better working conditions and standard of living too). If people can manage to break the isolation and gather enough people a general strike is a potent non-violent means to make a point. If 1 million people across the US stop their cars for 15 min during rush hour on a given morning it could not be ignored as all dmonstrations are(which virtually never get covered by MSM).
fighting Secrecy requires rejecting the excuse of national security. Rejecting secrecy as a cost, but the cost of using it is far greater as JFK mentions in a speech. Privacy is required for private individuals but transparency is required for public sector activity, its public. People need to realize also the the media and gov can and do lie.
Valid points made by all...However, sitting posting on a forum is lovely and a great way to share ideas. This is not changing anything, most everyone on this site agrees that we live in a sad state of affairs. So what are we going to do? Agreed we dont live in Northern Ireland but look at what they have accomplished. 2012 England gives them back their country. Since when did Patriots and Revolutionaries become Terrorists? I will tell you, since this country gave up and let our politicians think they are more powerful than the masses. This is definately not true. Peacfully trying to start a revolution...hmmm lets look at the hippy culture for a minute. They tried to start a revolution founded strictly on peace, drugs, and happiness. Now half of them,if not more, run part of the political machine. What happened to America...come on the country founded by revolution has become the same thing we fought against in the 1700's. Deeply troubling, isnt it?
soo true ^^. but i also kind of agree with whoever up there said that violence would be stopped easily and turned against our own cause. but to me that only kind of matters. i think much of this can be a matter of principle. there may be things that will happen to us in the future where violence has to be done. its sad and its sick, my relatives are veterans and i know how it can hurt and affect people for the rest of their lives. do i wanna fight and ruin the rest of my life and give up my potential (all i really wanna do in life is own a marketing firm)? NO i do not, i want a family i want a nice life. the perfect lesson for all of us is the movie The Patriot. where sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
Is a pecefull revolution something that will work for the time we live in? I say no! Could a revolt over the establishment we live in be simple an peacefull NO! Was our constitution and bill of rights set up for the citizens of this country to keep the goverment in check? I belive it was. I also belive we have lost that control as citizens of this country somewhere.
Are we not at a time we need to tell washington as a country we are not ok with big corprate america controlling goverment! Can we not as 300 million stop opression that the top 1% put on us!
Think about it our military force is backed by the working class of our sociaty, Not the well off controlling few.
Call me foolish an uneducated but could our countrys small entropuners who our looking after their employees as a priority be beter fit to control this contry.
Could our country not be better if the goverment worked in fear of it people than a goverment keeping its people in fear of it.
Is that not where we are now a country in fear of goverment.
It is time to take control time to over throw the power we are scared of. It will not be peacefull it will not be easy it will not be without blood shed but if the majority actually band together as they did over 210 years ago why cant we make this the world power it should be. A power of human freedom.
Well said. It has come to that. Time to stop living in fear of our government and make them fear the people as it should be. We have the constitutional to remove them, so let's organize and get it done!
What we Need is to develop a simple (minimal) platform that will achieve the immediate goals and America will support such as;
Decentralization (restoration of Constitutional Gov.)
Elimination of the IRS(& the Income Tax) & the Fed (return to gold standard)
Emasculation of Congress (Term limits-Anti-Lobbying Laws-No Perks or Pensions-Salary determined by the States that sent them)
Restraining of the Federal Courts ( to only matters of dispute between parties of differing states)
Political Reform (Universal ballot access laws- Outlawing all contributions from any individua outside a candidates disctrict and any non-individual PERIOD- proportional representation system instead of a "winner take all 50.1% system" we now have.
Or something like that. The Key is keep it simple but far reaching in its implications. Once developed THEn we educated the public who can support spicifics an not just a "concept"
Just my opinion, I could be wrong :-)
Here is what I'm doing to show someone cares and start the spark. On the night ( may be this upcoming Tuesday ) President Obama goes on TV to talk our nation into more troops - I'm lighting a candle and putting it in our front window. I know it sounds weak, but if we get the word out - it could become a powerful start to other things. I have already emailed some friends and they have started to email others. ( as of tonight I have 443 emails from people I don't even know saying they will be with me on that night and their candles will be on) Please copy this message, idea, call to action and email it to just 2 friends, ask them to do the same and be part of our moment of action coming up. "It is better to light a single candle than to sit and curse the dark."
I'm Pete O'Neil, and I'm not going to take it anymore,
you can email at email@example.com
If your "peacefull" protests will ever gain a heavy thought in the majority of brainwashed civilian mind "our" government will start to look at this group as a threat, the media will scream treason and terrorism has invaded. Then your "peacefull" protesters will be met with our own brainwashed army instead of them carrying anti protesting sings they will be carrying bullets, bombs, mines, gas. and if that doesnt whipe the threat out we will be met with air assult.
The problem is real your answers to the problems are to futile, do you really think this super power will let some peacefull speaking people overthrow the gov.?
BIGGER SOLUTIONS AND ANSWERS ARE REQUIRED.
THIS IS A WASTE OF TIME AS YOU SHOULDNT BE SPEAKING ABOUT THIS, POSTING ABOUT THIS.
(it would be nice if it wouldnt of came to this, and words still held meaning, and they do, just not to some greedy self centerd people in office nothing will make them shift besides an apperance of the high spirit and destroyer) or their own deaths by hands of humanbeings, not divine not intervention of oooooooooo
WE NEED TO RISE THE **** UP
BREAK DOWN THE WALLS
SECURE THE FRONT
SECURE THE BACK
SECURE THE SIDES
SECURE THE ROOF
then sit down and have a 1v1 conversation to impose your ideals on them. show them this is the only "right"
Well... To put it simply, peaceful protests won't help anything here. Just like those people that fight against abortion, it's never going to change. These people are ruled by the green monster, and the only thing that will change that is asserting our beliefs through force and aggressiveness. We've been run over for years now, decades even. Aren't you kind of sick of it by now? I know I am. I'm a seventeen year old girl, and I'm sick of this crap. I'm intelligent enough to understand our country is messed up and needs fixing. We won't be able to achieve this without taking action NOW, instead of waiting for Washington to do it. WE have to do it. I don't ever want to have to hurt someone, or be involved in a war. Yet I'm to the point that I think this is necessary.
I don't know... But in my heart, I feel this is what we need to do. Get plenty of people together and just try to get what we want by force. I'm tired of waiting. I don't want MY future messed up because of these lobbying politicians selling themselves out for a quick buck.
You are not alone. There are many like you, that are scared to say so.
But, we must not become violent.
Stay progressive and open-minded.
Don't let them get you down.
I have posted a new topic, and you might find it interesting.