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Paul, not John is author of Revelation?!

Grace, mercy, and peace,unto you, from God, our father, and our Lord Jesus Christ:

You say that Paul, not John, wrote the book of Revelation. Yet Paul's name is not mentioned, but "John" is mentioned five times.

I'm aware of what you say about the "holy kiss" greeting (header) and final salutation (footer). And this seems to have validity. Nevertheless, Only John, not Paul, is mentioned by name in Revelation, including 3x instances of "I John" as strongly indicating John as it's author. I do not understand this. Help me here.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Re: Paul, not John is author of Revelation?!

Marshall,

Grace, mercy, and peace unto you,
from God, our father, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Indeed, it says John 'five times' in Revelation; But there are other things mentioned 'five times' in Revelation, like this whacky phrase:

- Rev 1:4 which is and which was and which is to come
- Rev 1:8 which is and which was and which is to come
- Rev 4:8 which was and is and is to come (midst: no rest)
- Rev 11:17 which art and wast and art to come
- Rev 16:5 which art and wast and shalt be

This vengeful 'Lord God Almighty' referred to in Rev 4:8 (the midst of five) is also mentioned 'five times' in Revelation:

- Rev 4:8
- Rev 11:17
- Rev 15:3 (midst: "ways": "double minded": Jam 1:8)
- Rev 16:7
- Rev 21:22 (reverse of 22:21)

So then, we know this whacky 'grace and peace' greeting in Revelation 1:4 is from Johnny Law (not Paul), since it combines a present participle with imperfect (combines existence and non existence) by means of a middle voice also, and such is repeated five times, but notably different (reversed) in the midst.

Five times suggests this: "five in one house divided": three against two, and two against three: Lk 12:52, following 12:51 = division, not peace (aka law, not grace); Which is "allegory" for the five books of Moses: Gen, Ex, Lev, Num, Deut... ending with "great terror". As we discussed previously, Do-teronomy and Don't-eronomy is like damned if Do and damend if Don't. For it contains the "curse of the law", witch "cursed every one", twice: Gal 3:10,13.

Notice "upside down" is also mentioned five times:
- 2Kings 21:13
- Psalms 146:9
- Isaiah 24:1
- Isaiah 29:16
- Acts 17:6

Ok, let's notice John, mentioned five times, is firstly noted as a "servant", which is what he's told not to be in John 15:15, because servants ("prophets" in Rev 10:7; 11:18) are know nots (they "know not" what their Lord doeth: Jn 15:15; so forgive "them", for they "know not" what they do: Lk 23:34; they run the race to obtain a corruptible crown: 1Cor 9:24). Also, prophets (servants) are kNOW nots in Luke 16:16, which notes the law and the prophets (servants) WERE until John (the Baptist, aka Elijah: Mt 17:13). This John got beheaded, which is allegorically the end of the law and the prophets, since law had an expiration date, a fullness of time for such: Gal 4:4.

So, would John call himself a "servant"? Consider the title: The Revelation (uncovering) of St John The Divine (a saint many thought to be divine).

As for the gospel 'according to John', well, it's the only "Verily, verily" account of four accounts, where John is more beloved, but it's only 'according to John'. John was one of the twelve, who called Jesus "Master, master": one two many masters for a man to serve. These phrases are akin to "Amen, amen" (to blessed + cursed: Numbers 5:22) and "Alas, alas" (to twice fallen Baby-lon getting "double" trouble: Rev 18). So "Verily, verily" John is as double minded as the woman who said "Amen, amen" to blessed + cursed = "accursed": Gal 1:8,9; Which clarifies, twice, if any man or angel brings you this gospel, let him (not you) be accursed by it.

James and John "moved the ten to indignation" by wanting to be left and right of Jesus, which would make John like the thief on the right at the cross, who's told "shalt thou" (not thou shalt) be with me in paradise. Indignation is the first of four consequences of being contentious in Romans 2. James and John are also surnamed "Boanerges": "sons of thunder".

James, Cephas (Peter), and John are named in Galatians as those who "seemed" to be pillars, allegorically as if three top dogs to beware; For when it comes to Pharisees (like Saul of Saul/Paul) it's "beware the leaven"; but when it comes to dogs (who turn back to their own vomit: law) it's "beware of dogs", not just their doctrine. So let's notice John "turned" to what was "behind" him in Revelation 1:12, which was a voice that "spake" of spake/spoke in Hebrews 1. John uses "spake", but Paul clarifies it as by prophets in time past.

Consider the modern idioms for John: toilet, victim and victimizer, johnny law, etc. Consider what John prophet saw, himself (one like Son of man) on a throne, dumping his law shit on earth dwellers.

Paul sign-ifies Revelation is his by ending it with his token in every Pauline epistle, notably written his own hand. For Paul is given this title in Acts: "his witness unto all men".

John, who perhaps helped Peter (Satan) escape prison in Acts 12 at Easter, and perhaps was Popish Peter's bishop, was perhaps exiled to Patmos = my killing, a rugged isle for prisoners. For John not only bewitched churches, but also stirred up Jews against Romans, eventually causing a million more Jews to be killed, and a 100,000 taken captive again, the rest being scattered abroad.

Marshall, Revelation is like the final exam, and it's like navigating thru the best of spam, a spoof on John turning back to law like a dog turned to his own vomit.

This phrase: "unto the churches", used seven times in Revelation, is only used by Paul in Galatians, never by John.

Once you get past the standard belief, that Revelation is written by John, then there's lot of evidence for Paul being the author, not John. John never mentions Laodicea. Paul does. John never mentions Ephesus. Paul does. etc.

Some scholars are now admitting Revelation has the format of an 'epistle', but won't dare yet say it's an epistle of Paul. Other scholars are now leaning toward the early date of early/late date debates about when Revelation was written; many arguing it was prior to 70AD (destruction of Jerusalem, which makes it plausible to be written by Paul;

Especially since it is full of "allegory".

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.




Re: Paul, not John is author of Revelation?!

Is Paul Christ?, Or is Christ All?

Re: Paul, not John is author of Revelation?!

Adam,

Grace, and Mercy, and Peace unto you,
from God, our Father, and our Lord JC.

No. Paul is not Christ, per se, but is Christ-ian (different from Jesus-ian). Paul's gospel is not the gospel of Jesus, but is "the gospel of Christ": Romans 1:16. "Christ is the end of the law": Romans 10:4, so Paul's gospel is about "the end of the law", about how law is to be ended, abolished in Christ, put away as childish (devilish), done away, even blotted out to the point of vanish away (totally purged).

For where no law, there no transgression: Romans 4:15,
and when no law, then no sin is imputed: Romans 5:13.

The conclusions of Paul's epistles have no mention of law, only grace; After doing a comparative teaching about law vs grace, to shew law vs grace are as enmity vs friend (against vs with).

So the conclusion of Revelation is the same as the conclusions in Paul's epistles; And such is always hand written by Paul no matter who pens the epistle (noted thrice in Paul's epistles).

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.

Re: Paul, not John is author of Revelation?!

So John calls himself one who got revelation, but he is not.

What John really says is that TRUTH matters. You can not abolish it.

Re: Paul, not John is author of Revelation?!

I have come to a conclusion that there is a lot wrong with a lot of people, something weird has happened to the World and to people in general. It's at the point where America and Israel is going to War with Syria and Russia. I feel to many people don't know about Jacob(Surname of Israel) and the Twelve Tribes of Israel. This Torah(Ark) is bad news, it has ripped people apart and is almost to the point of being infallible. I just know I have Faith in God, and I don't Fear my Friend, I love him and I hope God gives me more Understanding; it's all I can do is just sit back and watch while people fight over Truth.

Re: Paul, not John is author of Revelation?!

I just found out that Jacob had Twelve tribes and Ishmael had Twelve tribes?