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Re: Death by persecution="martyr-dumb"/old age=childishness

Marshall,

Grace, mercy, [and] peace to you, from God, our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm glad you used the Holy Kiss 2 as your greeting to discuss this morbid subject of death. Eg:
- Holy Kiss 1: "Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ": Romans 1:7.
- Holy Kiss 2: "Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord": 1Timothy 1:2.
For Holy Kiss 2 in-cludes the "mercy" between (in the "midst") grace and peace; Also uses "our" Lord Jesus Christ instead of "the" Lord Jesus Christ. For if we leave out the mercy of "I will have mercy, and not sacrifice", we can have grace and peace, but if it's peace by sacrifice, then it's morbid peace, martyr-dumb, kinda like the peace (talk) they're trying to re-start in Israel as we speak.

I have come to the conclusion that all talk of decease should cease to have true peace. For any talk of decease, even if it be of one died for all, has this result in 1Corinthians 15: as in Adam "all die"; And this result in 2Corinthians 5:14: "all dead"; And this result in Colossians 2:22: "all perish"; and this result in 2Timothy 3:1 "perilous" (aka peril-us). Such "all die", "all dead", "all perish", "perilous times" is not salvation, but more akin to extinction. So, not much different than the ten 'total annihilation' scenarios of science (three more than the "seven last plagues" of seven angels harping about decease being ok in Revelation 15's song of "servant" Moses + song of 'arnion' Lamb).

So I like the two biblical themes portrayed in the 2011 sci-fi movie 'In Time'; Namely: 'you better RUN' if yer time is expiring (so RUN to OBTAIN the INCORRUPTIBLE grace: 1Cor 9:24-27... 1Pet 1:23, for corruptible grace won't pass the "holiness with sobriety" test, nor get you safely unto the end alive unto God), and 'nobody should have immortality if even one person has to die' (Rom 2:11... 2Cor 5:14). So, Marshall, since you like movies, movie themes, I recommend you Mark 13:37 "watch" this movie, which has a different theme than Dirty Harry, aka giving people all the time they need to lay hold on eternal life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdadZ_KrZVw

When you study out "I will have mercy, and not sacrifice" it will become more obvious the "not" part of such (not sacrifice)is not then, not now, not ever: Ps 40:6; 51:16; Hos 6:6; Mt 9:13; 12:7; Heb 10:all. So, lo "I come to do thy will" is to have mercy, and not sacrifice; aka to have grace, and not law. As Heb 10 notes, do the will of God precedes receive the promise. As Heb 11 notes, those who didn't all died and received not the promise. As Heb 12 notes, doing the end "run" along "with patience" involves "lay aside" the things that beset a runner making it to the end alive unto God, such as decease, and then require resurrection of the dead. For when you study it out, God is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: Mt 22:32; Mk 12:27; Lk 20:38. So if you add "decease" to "living", it's not only Mt 22:29's "ye do err", but Mk 12:27's "greatly err". BIG OOPS.

So yes, iff I were to make sides and take a side (which you don't do in Christ is our peace neither makes nor takes sides), then I'd take the right side of the crucifixion vs crucifiction debate. For crucifixion is a "grave" subject, even if you get to have the resurrection of life instead of the resurrection of damnation of two John 5:29 resurrections that are both a "grave" subject to a-void if you want to make it to the end aliv e, by laying hold on eternal life that isn't life after death, but is life void of death. So Hebrews 6 firstly says: "LEAVING" the (life + death) "principles" of the "doctrine" of Christ, let us "GO ON UNTO PERFECTION", which notably involves leaving "resurrection of the dead" x2 since there are no dead in "the God of the living" to even resurrect, only dead to resurrect in the God of the dead, which is "greatly err".

Things to leave are things on both left/right sides, so such are mentioned twice, like "be not children" x2, like "be not highminded" x2, like "let the dead bury their dead" x2, like "let not your heart be troubled" x2, etc. That's why Christ refused "mingled" drink offered x2, as if from both sides of left/right heavens on high, in order to go higher. For if you don't leave both sides, you can't go higher. Hebrews notes the leaving is if God permit. So to get a permit to leave, you have to be willing to leave both sides of left/right division to go on unto true peace.

NO. I am not 65 years old. I have put off old to put on new. For if you put new wine in old bottles, then both new + old will be spoiled, like Judas "burst": Luke 5:37... Acts 1:18. Also, even when new of old/new, there's still two new things to sort out: new and dead way (narrow way) or new and living way (more excellent way). It's the same as when you're spiritual of natural/spiritual there's still this to do: "comparing spiritual things with spiritual", aka comparing plural with singular. For law is both natural and spiritual, but natural disaster and spiritual wickedness. True Grace (above), Pure Grace (void of law), is neither disaster nor wickedness. Incorruptible grace is not corruptible grace. So born again is not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible: 1Peter 1:23. So it's not right of law/grace, but above of under/above. For even "under grace" is still "under", and still has this to deal with: "jeopardy every hour", under-taker jeopardy. I have no such jeopardy; For I quick going to hour-ly services of sin-a-goges and bewitched churches, where they still talk of decease as being peace.

Jesus, who submitted to crucifixion, notably got "numbered with the transgressors" for doing it, which is shame, not fame. He did it to fulfill the law, instead of end the law after mending the law to "love your enemies". So even when resurrected, with the resurrection of life, he still had enemies, which means he still had "enmity". In compare-I-son and contrast Christ abolished the law, to be the end of the law, not the mend of the law. If you end the law, abolish the law, there is no law to fulfill. But you have to do it before the cross, else you decease, which is not true peace. It's a "mystery" to solve, "in time", by see-king according to the "seek" clues given, in order to "find" what told to find: "find grace", and thereby "obtain" mercy (not sacrifice).

You won't find pure grace in Luke-warm Acts, for there are no plural Acts nor plural Apostles in God is one, and notably not one of twain, but one above twain. That's why even Paul of Saul/Paul could not fully persuade Agrippa to be (singular) "Christian", because he was still in bonds. So Agrippa said "almost" persuaded in Acts 26. But Paul said "fully" persuaded in Romans, which is not the gospel of Jesus, but is "the gospel of God": grace and "the gospel of Christ": peace. Yet Romans also explains peace with men and God is "through Jesus Christ", in that Christ of false/true Christs arise. The other Christ arising notably seduces the elect, into believing decease is peace. So we have to learn the difference between "believe" and "know", lest we believe the error, of the spirit of error, instead of know the truth of the spirit of truth. So there's also two spirits to sort out.

As I've said, and listed many such in the 'Twain Shew' portion of the God Shew, there's two of everything to sort out in a HOLY BIBLE "containing Old and New Testaments". There's even two Gods and two Christs and two kinds of immortality; Even two kinds of 'agape' love (God), one that waxes c-old, and one that never fails. The one that never fails is put on above forgiving one another: Col 3:12-15, for perfect love "thinketh no evil" to even forgive, let alone confess: 1Cor 13:5.

For if you study out forgiveness, which there are also two kinds of, one is conditional (you 1st, then God): Mt 6:14,15 and one is unconditional (God 1st, so you also): Eph 4:32. But this is also tricky, since there is unforgiveable sin which cannot be forgiven in this world nor the to come: Mk 3:39. So then, how the heck hath God forgiven you: Eph 4:32, and while yet a sinner: Rom 5:8, if you committed the unpardonable sin of speaking against the Law (aka blasphemy the Ghost), even if when a child simply said parental law (forbids things) was unfair. Not to mention Jesus' Father did this to a servant in Mt 18:23-35: forgiven + unforgiven + tormented; Which Jesus threat-ends can happen to you if you don't think evil to forgive and forgive it all. Go figure.

NO, the amplified version does not put anything 'best'. For it's not even scriptural, but 'paraphrased' stuff of unlearned men.

Also, as you say: 'on the other hand', concerning John 11:25, notice it says "yet shall he live"? It's not a statement, but a question (similar to what's said to one thief: "shalt thou be with me in paradise"). Shall he is not he shall, and shalt thou is not thou shalt. So also forget the other hand, since Hebrews 10:31 notes it's both fearful and a fall to fall into such plural "hands" of the living God, aka the living Law. There is a difference between "the living God" and "the God of the living". So notice the difference between "believed" and "know" in John 8:30-32; And notice John is a "Verily, verily" gospel account.

Indeed, there are many erroneous things in the AMP, NAS, NIV... all other versions than KJV, even NKJV. That's why I use KJV; But neither the Roman Catholic nor Protestant KJVs printed after the authorized KJV. For when reading the Epistle Dedicatory of Translators of the Bible, it's noted therein that 7th English Bible they were authorized to make, from six good, was neither RCC nor Protestant, but one more exact version that had this purpose: to make God's holy truth the more kNOWn. So we should avoid both popish bibles and protest-ant bibles, especially those having 'dangerous helps'.

As for Enoch (which there are also two of to sort out), Gen 5:24 (KJV) says "Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him". Heb 11:15 says this Enoch was "not found". Luke 15 says not found = lost = dead. So then, there's also two kinds of NT "translated": methistēmi (Col 1:13) and metatithēmi (Heb 11;5). Methistemi gets you translated into the kingdom of his "dear" (agape) Son, and the other translated, well, it ends badly: these all died and received not the promise.

Some say the devil is in the details, so they say KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). I found the opposite, that it's "give more earnest heed" to the details is how we escape the erroneous kind of translated.

As for Elijah, well, his second coming is as John the Baptist, noted in Mt 17:13, which is notably "spake" to them, not spoken to us. So what's noted about John the Baptist (aka Elijah: the violent prophet) is he talked of "wrath to come" (But God hath not appointed us to wrath: 1Thess 5:9). He also taught his disciples to pray "forgive us as we forgive", which can be not forgiven, or perhaps even forgiven + unforgiven + tormented; Something a legalistic wife does to her husband. So Johnny Baptist (Elijah) gets beheaded for accusing a king. So Luke 16:16 notes that is the end of "the law and the prophets", after which the kingdom of God is preached. For law had an expiration date, a fullness of the time for such law law noted in Gal 4. Also John 15:15 denotes the end of prophets = servants, by saying friends kNOW. It's a "mystery" to solve, by paying attention to the details, and not judging anything until you've heard all the evidence, which even a jury is instructed to do.

Endure unto the end, noted in Mt 24:13, does not refer to dying of old age in the new age, nor to the ww wail of Revelation 1:7 "because of him" (one like Son of man), nor even to an assumed second coming of Jesus in Revelation 22:20; But rather to the end already written in Revelation 22:21, which has no mention of law: sin: death whatsoever, only of grace, and notably the grace of "our" Lord Jesus Christ, which is not the corruptible grace, but the incorruptible grace.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.

I hope that answered some of your cleverly worded questions.
















Re: Death by persecution="martyr-dumb"/old age=childishness

Grace (will have) Mercy (multiplies) Peace.

Law-makers & Law-abiders (makers & lovers of lies) should notice law criminalizes everyone to the point of death, after vexing & tormenting.

The GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ with you all. Amen.