Good answer Chris,
First I will start that I agree that the books are not scripture and never were. You make good points and lots more could be made why they are not. Now to were I disagree. The books were canonized in the council of Hippo in 393. That is a fact. They were upheld again in the council of Carthage in 397. It was not until 419 that books such as 2 Peter, 2, 3 John, Jude, and Revelation were canonized. In the first few centuries there was no accepted canon of scripture. There was hundreds of writings people used. That is just a fact of history. So, the "hidden" books were canonized in the late 3rd century despite what you wrote. In 397 it was declaired that only canonized books were to be read in church. The "hidden" books were part of the listed canon and that is a fact. Do your research. So to say that there was some miricle from God on how we finally arrived at our current bible and it contains only inspired scripture and no other real scripture was left out and destroyed is pretty lame at best. So who were these so called inspired men of God under the devine leadership of the Holy Spirit which decided on which was which? Its a good story and sounds wonderfully great, but is really just non-sense and leaves out the truth that just plain old arguing men decided on what went in and what stayed out. Now having said that, I will say God did decide which books went in and they were not all His words. It is done as a test if we will follow Him or follow the evil one. Jesus preached Fathers gospel and Paul preached the gospel of the evil one. We have a choice just as Adam and Eve had a choice. Do we believe Father and Jesus, or do we believe Paul and the evil one. That is our choice to make. Jesus and Paul do not and never did preach the same gospel. That is just a simple fact my friend which if debated, Paul will be ground to dust. It has already been debated on here and I will not do it again. Paul is the antichrist Jesus warned would SOON come and deceive even the apostles if possible. Paul can not be an apostle of the Lamb which he claims. It is totally impossible. The facts and words of Jesus say so. But people are to comfy with the gospel of Paul to listen to what Jesus really had to say. Mr. Miles had to admit that he did not believe in a literal Jesus because if he said Jesus was literal, Jesus blew Paul out of the water and exposed him for the liar he was. Ask Mr. Miles if he could answer any of the problems with Paul based on the words and teachings of Jesus. He could not so he can't believe in a literal Jesus. You cannot put your faith in Jesus and Paul. Jesus is the life, way and truth. Paul is a deciever taught by the best liar ever created dressed up in the light of Jesus. Go ahead and say I am stupid, decieved, a worker of the devil, a non-believer. I do not care. I know who Paul was and do not listen to anything he says. I will not go along with the world just because they say so. That will not be a good enough answer to Father and Jesus on judgement day. He would say to me "depart"! Those are words I really do not want to hear. I know who Paul is, so if I followed Paul I would lose my life.
Thank you for your time and answers.
One I must as for forgiveness of you...I am sorry that I previously spoke in a tongue of sarcasm, or prideful ness in my knowledge. I do not mean to boast in myself or degrade/humiliate anyone. Please bear with me for I am a work in progress.
From what I have read and from previous posts and this one it seems as though you a well learned individual. The one thing I would ask is where in the Bible are you finding discrepancies between Jesus and Paul...if I don’t see/believe it then I cant really comment on nothing...just some scriptural references...and then I will read...meditate...pray and then would be happy to respond. ThankYou
Grace unto you, and peace,
from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
My concern with AC Paul (AntiChrist Paul) is his partiality and division; Due to not letting go of the law. He will not see the gospel of Paul is both "the gospel of God" (Grace) and "the gospel of Christ" (Peace), via an "apostle of JC by the will of God". He still wants law judgment and division thereof, and "depart" for some, instead of "come" for all.
A study of Romans reveals it's written unto both Jews and Gentiles, with several things mentioned twice:
- ye/we are not under the law, but under grace x2
- the grace of our Lord JC with you all. Amen. x2
A study of Peter's conversion reveals it occured later than Paul's, and from reading all Paul's epistles. So Peter, as the apostle to the Jews, was not converted in Acts, nor doing his part: converting the Jews from law to grace; But rather dissimulating, which caused Barnabas to get carried away. So Paul (being both a Jew and a Gentile himself) had to speak to both Jews and Gentiles, but to the Jew first, in accordance with scriptures. Yet Paul's own conversion was also in three statges: Terrorist Saul --> Wretched Paul --> Paul The Apostle (his witness unto all men). Pauline epistles clarify such things, and James dovetails with Pauline epistles. Both Pauline epistles and James dovetail with the four gospels and Acts. Canonization of NT books reflects all these things, instead of which book was written first; And was unanimously agreed upon by nearly fifty learned men called Translators of the Bible, who meticously reveiwed every word of it. Furthermore, their translation was subject to the scrutiny of all learned men in the kingdom comprised of Great Britain, France, and Ireland; Which was allegorically five in one house divided, since Great Britain was comprised of England, Scotland, and Wales. Hence the need to make God's holy truth the more known.
The GRACE of our Lord JC with you all. Amen.
Good Afternoon Chris,
I will be out a few days. I will then post some problems with Paul. Please understand, I judge none on believing in Paul or not. The deception is great and had me too for a long time. So if I judge any, I bring judgement on myself. I base my beliefs on Jesus alone and the few He taught in person. That can't be a bad thing. I look forward to our discussion. If it is alright with you, I would like to first discuss Paul's apostleship to the Gentiles. I think you will be interested in what is in the bible about this.
Peace be with you.
Read your post Danny. God bless your soul. Why can you not believe the plain and simple words of Jesus? I wish you would. You can not bless people in His name and not believe what He says. No offense, but that is wrong as far as I can see.
Dear AC Paul,
(Cc - Chris)
Grace unto you, and peace,
from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
AC, you mention I'm 'wrong', 'as far as you can see'; Perhaps still wanting to be right to make others wrong, which is still divisional, not peaceful nor unifying. Perhaps you are not (yet) looking above and beyond the law, if you can't see "afar off", as noted in 2Peter 1:9 "he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins".
Or would you also like to delete or ignore 2Peter along with the Pauline epistles? For 2Peter notes his conversion came about by reading all Paul's epistles, and agrees with what's written in Paul's epistles; With converted Peter now saying the same (JC) things, but noting such things are hard to comprehend when carnal minded, or highminded, instead of Christ minded. For 2Peter speaks of spiritual growth in our Lord and Saviour JC: "grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen". But 1Peter still speaks of both CJ & JC, yet notably as an apostle of JC offering "peace" to all that are in CJ. So, perhaps we should pay closer attention to the details to solve the mystery; And focus on peace rather than on division.
The GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ with you all. Amen.
Peter or Paul to the Gentiles?
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.
And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
It would seem Peter and the other 11 were to preach only to the house of Israel. But things are not always what they seem as I have learned. Jesus came for His lost sheep while walking on this earth, so His followers would do the same. But what about after the house of Israel rejected Jesus and had Him killed? Did He have another plan for Peter that He knew from the beginning?
On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
And the voice [spake] unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common.
This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
Was this vision really about Jesus making all foods clean? Would Peter not have know this by now if this is what Jesus taught? We see Peter still had not eaten anything unclean. Peter goes on to explain later exactly what the vision had meant.
And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
But Peter rehearsed [the matter] from the beginning, and expounded [it] by order unto them, saying,
I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common.
And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.
And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.
And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
We can see that the vision had nothing to do with food, but everything to do with the Gentiles. What was once “unclean” could now be cleansed. The vision was to tell Peter that He was now to go out to the Gentiles and preach the gospel. No more did Father in Heaven have a chosen people. His chosen people would now be of spirit and not of race. Jew or Gentile could now be part of the true house of Israel. Peter confirms being the one chosen by Father in the follow verses.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We see Peter preached and the Holy Spirit fell upon the Gentiles. Now listen to Peter as a dispute broke out over the issue. I think the words of Peter are loud and clear.
And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Notice that Paul was there and heard Peter’s words. Paul then spoke of “miracles and wonders”. Why does then James say, hey people, listen to me now? Does it kind of seem odd to stop the story right there and not write whatever James thought was that important to say? Now lets look at the words of Paul, knowing that Peter was chosen to preach the gospel to the Gentiles.
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;
(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Only [they would] that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Did Father change His mind? Did He make a mistake choosing Peter to preach to the Gentiles? Did Peter really disobey the will of Jesus and hand over the Gentiles to Paul? It seems that Paul says the others are only “seemed” pillars. I guess this is why Paul said he withstood Peter, blamed him and later on calls him a hypocrite. This is a paradox I can find no answer for except one. Either Peter, Jesus, and Father in Heaven made a mistake or Paul was sadly mistaken about his authority and apostleship. I tried to give Paul the benefit of the doubt for nearly 20 years. It became clear to me that there was more than meets the eye going on here.
If this was the only problem, I could look past it. But Paul has many more worse problems. Would you like to know more? It is up to you. What do you think about this?
Thank you very much for your time.
If you believed in Father in Heaven, you would believe this...Paul is not your friend. Don't wait too long Danny. Your salvation is now. Do not wait for the summer to pass.
Dear AC Paul & Chris,
Grace & Peace from God & Son.
God isn't the author of confusion (unrest), but of peace (rest); Especially on the seventh day, and the third day is as the seventh day when counting the days in John 1 & 2:1. Let him that hath understanding count: Rev 13.
In Luke 15 we find both the son who was lost(dead) is found(alive), and the sheep which was lost(dead) is found(alive). So rejoice, if none lost, all found. Furthermore it was Son of Man who came to seek and save the lost; And in Numbers 23:19 it's the Son of Man who should repent, for perceiving any were lost, by giving place to both lost and found, or to clean and unclean, via grace and law.
God never ever saw both clean and unclean, nor both good and evil. From the get go, in Genesis 1, God saw "good"(only) x6, and "very good" the 7th time. It was the LORD, of God vs the LORD in the flood story, who perceived both clean and unclean. So let us distinguish between God and the LORD; For if one God be both, then God's a bi-polar psycopath to be avoided, lest he's having a law worketh wrath day, and not merciful but both merciful and merciless.
As for the twelve, old and new, they were like a hung jury, and could never agree on anything, and got upbraided for their unbelief. Two of the twelve, namely John and James, moved the ten to indignation. Of Judas it is said he "also betrayed him", denoting others did; Especially Peter, who denied him thrice, and perhaps twice. After the crucifixion and resurrection we find them hiding behind a locked door, in fear mode, not in perfect love void of fear.
Peter is called Satan: an offence: Mt 16:23; And fore-told he'd get converted: Lk 22:32. In John 21 gone fishing Peter didn't even recognize the risen Lord at Tiberias, and when he heard it was the Lord he cast himself into the sea. In Acts he dissimulates, gets jailed, breaks out of jail and goes underground, later surfacing as Cephas, perhaps the first Pope.
Peter reveals his conversion came about by reading all Paul's epistles: 2Pet3. Only then did he strengthen (grace) his brethren with grace mercy peace as foretold to do; With "grow in grace"; But firstly with peace to those in CJ, as from JC, in 1Pet, finally concluding JC as our Lord and Saviour, to whom be glory, both now and for ever, in 2Pet.
So also Paul speaks to CJ folk as an apostle of JC, clarifying JC is the only foundation laid to build on, and concludes the grace of JC with you all, against none of you. But Paul gets converted first, in three stages:
Terrorist Saul-->Wretched Paul-->Paul The Apostle
And therefore also cannonized first in the Bible.
So Paul becomes apostle to both Jews and Gentiles; but to the Jew first, according to the scriptures, and to make up for the slack of Peter, till Peter got fully converted from law to grace. In Romans we find things mentioned twice, for both Jews and Gentiles:
- ye/we are not under the law, but under grace x2
- the grace of our Lord JC with you all. Amen. x2
We also find there's no difference between Jews and Gentiles, as there's no respect of persons with God.
Peter also becomes apostle to both Jews and Gentiles, but still dissimulates (causing Barnabas to get carried away) till he gets withstood to the face and converted by reading all Paul's epistles; In which Paul is revealed as a "steward" of the mysteries. So Paul writes about both sides from the scriptures, but concludes one thing only: Grace with you all. Amen. So it's not Noahic grace: partial and unmerciful, but JC grace and truth: impartial and merciful to you all.
It's a "mystery", noted over 20 times in the NT; So to solve the mystery we're told "take heed", pay closer attention to the details; And don't form any judmental opinion till you've read it all, unto the end. For every good mystery has lots of twists to it. So also the NT, a "better testament" with a "better hope", has a third part hidden within it to discover, called the "more excellent way" which is neither broad minded nor narrow minded, but Christ minded. Such is brought forth by Paul: "his witness unto all men". So if you reject the Pauline epistles, you'll miss the best part of (good-->better)-->best; Also called "greatest" of (great-->greater)-->greatest.
The GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ with you all. Amen.
Thank you for the reply. Please understand I do know what you think and why you think it. I knew from the beginning. You have to understand I know who Paul is and why he wrote what he wrote. I also know he never saw or spoke to Jesus once. Neither in the flesh or in the spirit. Please know that I know this for a fact. A fact that can not change. I do not suppose that I could ever change your mind and that was never my intent. My intent was for you to say what you really believe about Jesus. People had to know this to avoid your deception of saying you believe in Jesus. If my time here shows only one person who might of fell for you, instead sees your false teaching for what they are and that you really do not believe in Jesus, then my time was well spent. I know I have a greater understanding of how to defeat your teaching now and that you have a greater respect for people now and how to treat and speak to them. So that is something good that came out of this. I am sure the true apostles and James the Just loved Paul as a human being, even though they despised his words, deeds and teachings. Peter even showed him respect as Paul was his enemy. Your reply to my post is total and utter non-sense. You again put Paul above Jesus and his hand-picked apostles He lived with and taught. You make Him out to be a retard that could not get things right the first time and had to come back for the mighty Paul to save the world. Do you forget Jesus said He must leave to send the Holy Spirit to teach us all things? Does that mean coming back in person to teach Paul in the "desert" in person? Come on Danny. Do you want to know how I knew what you thought before you said it? Jesus and His true apostles told us what you would believe and teach. It is the same teaching wrapped in a different paper that the evil one spoke from the beginning. Do you really think you could ever fool me? I rebuke your teacher in the name of Yeshua, the one and only true teacher. I believe His words and not the lies of Paul and his followers. You deny the Spirit of Father came in the flesh. You say its just a story for our learning. Well Danny, that story foretold of people like you would come teaching that and dening Yeshua came in the flesh. He and John said these people would be antichrists. You follow the original antichrist, so naturally what they said is true. I do not apologize for saying this. It is just sad to say it because you are a human being just like all of us who was suppost to live forever. I do believe you were taught in the spirit as you say on your site. It was the same spirit who taught Paul. You are such a bright and taughtful man. What could have happened to make you fall for these lies and deception? Why do you want to be a wondering star reserved for judgement? To believe what you believe you have to say Jesus never really existed in the flesh. In whom do you put your faith, hope and trust in then? Is it Paul. An admitted murder and liar from the beginning? Father will forgive all if asked with a pure and repentant heart, but He would never use a past murder as His great teaching apostle. I know that and you know that. Why will you not admit it and turn to the true and might Father in Heaven and Yeshau? Do you know the Jesus Paul teaches is a fairytale? Of course you do because Paul believed in the same made up Pagan Jesus that the evil one convinced him existed. Yeshua said His true law would never pass away. Paul said it did. It is the same old test Father gave us in the beginning. Will you believe Me or someone else. Why do you believe someone else? Adam had the same choice. The men of old had the same test, follow My commandments or follow the pagan laws of sacrifice and bloodshed given by the wicked priests. Guess who they chose. We are now given the same test as believers. Do we follow Jesus who spoke the words of Father or do we follow Paul who spoke the lies and deceptions of the evil one. That is why we are here. We are here to love and follow Father just because we want too. This proves the evil one was wrong. Father wins (as if there was ever any doubt about it). Why do you chose the side of the loser, who lost and was lost from the beginning? Can you not learn from that example? Why do you refuse to love your Creator and follow Him? You were born with him, why did you turn from Him unto the evil one? Deep down in your soul you know Paul can't be telling the truth if the words of Jesus are real and true. So you refuse to believe in Jesus and His words. Do you not know that His words give life? What is Paul and his father going to give you? They will give you nothing my friend! They give nothing because all they can do is take. They will take life Father wants so badly to give you. Why will you not take it? Why do you refuse it? Why do you teach other to refuse it? Why is maybe the question we will never know. Why do you think I bother still talking to you? It is not why you think. Do you really think all will be saved? Do you really think the law and sin do not exist anymore? Do you really believe Jesus never walked the earth as flesh? I believe you would answer yes to all of these. I believe you have been suckered by the best in the business. Who is it that would deceive the whole world and even the elect apostles of Yeshau if possible. Think really hard Danny. After you think really hard, you can only have one answer. The answer would be Paul and his teachings. Who else is it Danny? Is it Simon Magus, Jesus, the 12 apostles, the pope, or maybe Krusty the Klown? No Danny. You know who it is and you still choose to follow him. How can there be forgivness for that? There will not be Danny. You were forced to chose between the words of Yeshua and the words of Paul because you know and admit they cannot both be true. Why did you choose Paul? Why did your choose death? Why do you like being a wondering star? Why not do the one simple thing Yeshua said, repent, follow Me and keep my commandments and law if you love Me. Why don't you love Him instead of Paul? I am quite sure if you could go back in time and meet Paul you would lay a big one to know what he was really like. How could you look Yeshua in the eye, face to face, and say you love Paul and not Him? What would you say to Him Danny? What would you say? Go right now and look into a mirror and tell Him what you would say to Him. He died as a human to defeat the evil one and give you a chance at life. There is no greater love than that Danny. Why will you not love Him back? How can you forsake such a chance? For a murder, deciever and liar? Do you really think Paul would love you that much? Love does not proceed out of a heart of a murder Danny. What will you tell Yeshua when He asks you, Why did you not love me back? What will you say Danny? What will you say? What ever you say, He might say....If you loved me, you would have kept my commandments and told others to do the same. What will you say Danny? What will you say? What if Yeshua was real Danny? What a gift you threw away Danny. And for who......Paul?