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Law: Full-Fill it!


If there can never be peace between Law and Grace, then the death of Jesus Christ on the CROSS was a useless sacrifice. Did he not surely die? Did he not rise again and surely live? The TWO are no longer contrary. Through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, peace has been made and the TWO are now ONE. ONE NEW MAN. Thank you Jesus.

“For he (Christ) is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:” Eph 2:14-16

The sacrifice of Jesus was for our SINS and the enmity was caused by the sinful Flesh, not by a faulty law.

GRACE (with LAW) through the LOVE of God be with you all.
FAITH (with WORKS) through the LOVE of Jesus be with you all.

Re: Law: Full-Fill it!

Dear JK,

Grace unto you, and peace,
from God our Father and the Lord Jesus-->Christ.

You seem to be hung up on the cross, and sacrifice of the law. Galatians 3: 10-13 notes it cursed EVERY ONE.

Perhaps you didn't notice yet it's "allegory"(Gal 4) and "mystery"(noted over 20 times) to solve in time; Lest all (the KofG within you) perish by law instead of none perish by grace. There are only two options: extinction("all perish": Col 2; "all die": 1Cor 15) or salvation(of all: "the world"). All perish is by law: Col 2: 20-22. Saved(Only) is by Grace(Only).

So then it's a globe-all matter, not some only. For "there is NO respect of persons with God". None! Whatever applies to any applies to all. Such is the reason we're all still grounded, because ppl like you still give place to groundead.

You can't law impute sin and death to others without law imputing condemnation and death to yourself also: By THY words THOU art justified or condemned: Mt 12. No man is justified by law: Gal 3. For by the curse of the law if any try and fail to keep all the law all the time, for a 1000 generations, then "all" are accursed: Deut. All who tried to failed: Rom 9:31. So then the only way for any and all to have eternal salvation is by the abolition of law: all law written in stone and ink: 2Cor 3. For a little leaven(law) leaveneth(killeth) the whole lump, kinda like a little cancer can and will kill the whole body, including the head of the body, if it's not all removed in time. Any doctor will tell you that.

The objective isn't to get hung up on the cross and curse EVERY ONE thereby; But rather to go "through" it, as if "through the valley of the shadow(law) of death", allegorically "through Jesus-->Christ", to risen with "Christ" (not Jesus), as noted in Col 3. For Christ is not standing right on high in plural divided (left/right) heavens awaiting judgment as Jesus is, but "seated" in "heaven": "higher than the heavens". Seated denotes the law vs grace matter is settled in "Christ: is the end of the law". Period.

You may want to look into the will of God concerning "sacrifice"; For it is notably the same in both OT and NT: "I will have mercy, and NOT sacrifice": Psalms 40:6; Psalms 51:16; Hosea 6:6; Matthew 9:13; Matthew 12:7; Hebrews 10:all... the "not" part being not then, not now, not ever.

In Mt 9:13 we find Hos 6:6 repeated as a go figure what such (allegory) meaneth. When going to Hebrews 10 we find it meaneth I will have grace, and not law. We also find do the will of God precedes receive the promise (eternal life).

So then yes, the sacrifice of Jesus was a useless sacrifice; For as James 1:15 notes: law imputed sin, when "it is finished", brings forth death (not life). For as 1Cor 15:56 points out, law is not only the source of sin (Rom 4:15; 5:13), but also the "strength"("strong man": Mt) of sin's death sting. Thereby law is the ministration of death: 2Cor 3:7; which has to be "done away" for anyone to have eternal life, since grace + law is as life + death = a dead end.

Perhaps you should look closer at Ephesians 2 and note the wording: "the law of commandments". The verse which this applies to is Gen 2:17 of 16 vs 17, which is grace vs law: every tree vs not every tree.

All other law (10 commandments, 613 torah laws) were notably "added", and "BECAUSE of the transgression". Where no law, there no transgression: Rom 4:15. The woman, being decieved, was in the transgression. So then the woman, being deceived, was in the law.

It's "allegory" and "mystery", requiring seek and "find grace", "in time", to "help" connect the biblical dots to solve the mystery, lest all perish by law instead of none perish by grace. For as Jude 5 notes, prior to Revelation's worse case scenario, saved + destroyed after is a dead end which all who followed Moses(law) had. So the higher exhortation is to endure to the end to be saved(only) by grace(only); And the "you all" in the end already written notably begins with "you". Selah.

The grace(only) of our Lord Jesus Christ with you all. Amen.

Re: Law: Mend it or End it?

Christ IS the end of the law: Romans 10:4; Eph 2:15

Christ is NOT the mend of the law: Luke 5:36,37

New wine (grace) should not be put in old bottles (laws), lest it "burst". Judas notably "burst", as
he mixed grace + law, is as life + death, dead end.

The GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ with you all. Amen.

Re: Law: Full-Fill it!


You are completely misunderstanding the parable because you are trying to force your model of “This vs. That” on it. It is not God vs. himself, Jehovah vs. Jesus, Old Testament vs. New Testament, Law vs. Grace.

You are wrongly dividing the word of truth.

Re: Law: Mend it or End it?

Dear JK,

Grace(not law) unto you, and peace(not division),
from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

In a manner of speaking you are right, but only in a manner of law speaking, and only right to make others wrong; Which is to say you're looking at it from the bottom, rather than from the top. So all you're seeing is law and lawed-grace, which is what Noah saw in the (plural) eyes of the LORD. Clever Noah did both all God commanded AND all the LORD commanded; but such grace + law got him inducted in the hall of shame, not fame. And if you continue your blame game, you'll also end up in the hall of shame.

I'm not trying to force anything on anyone, not preaching nor teaching; rather simply sharing what I've learned... firstly sorting out twain of all this vs that, then flushing all this in favor of all that; that God is light having no darkness at all, which is to say understanding having no miss added at all, which is to say Grace void of Law to the point of no mention of L-w at all:

The GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ with you all. Amen.

Re: Law: Full-Fill it!


I do not "make" others wrong, just as The Law does not "make" others wrong. The Law exposes the wrong.

The enemy is Sin, and Sin does not expose itself. To play the blame game you need a perfect Law to point the blame. Those with sin are put to shame. Those with Grace must still play, but are found without blame, shame, or stain on Judgment Day. Grace with Law is peace unto Fame, while Sin with Law is war unto shame.

How can you sort out the twain of all when you flush the thing which causes "That" to fall?
You become a Judge with no Law fulfilling judgment with all flaw.

Re: Law: Mend it or End it?


GRACE unto you(not ye), and peace,
from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

You're still seeing judge righteousness as law, as looking at it from below. There is no righteousness in law to even attain, as Romans 9:31 plainly tells us. Judging righteous judgment is judging all graced, so none perish.

Your problem is your conscience hasn't been purged of sin consciousness. Hebrews 9 & 10 addresses this issue. And sin consciousness, when it is finished, brings forth death, not life. James 1:15 addresses this issue.

Grace and Law do not mix, except to make an oxyMORON, which ye seem hell bent on being. But hey, if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

The GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ with you all. Amen.

Re: Law: Full-Fill it!

No, I am not looking at it from below or under it. And No, Romans 9:31 does NOT tell us there is no righteousness in law to attain. In fact, it tells us that if Israel had sought it by faith, they would have attained to the law of righteousness. It is plainly clear and clearly plain that the law is of righteousness and there is only one way to attain to it, which is by Faith and not by Works. Forcing “This vs. That” on Grace and Law causes you to not see that it is actually “This WITH That” which creates One New Man, so making peace. Do you not understand that PEACE is not War, and PEACE is not “This vs. That”? Love is not “This vs. That”, Unity is not “This vs. That”, Whole is not “This vs. That”, and One New Man is not “This vs. That”.

But hey, some people like the log in their eye. It makes it easier to skip over the verses that contradict their interpretation. After all, it is easier for Jesus to take away The Law than our sins, right?
Grace is pointless because everyone is righteous without The Law, right?
All receive the reward of eternal life and enter the gates of heaven without The Law, right?
God must have made a mistake or purposely deceived us when he made The Law, right?
We can all solve the “mystery” if we just flush The Law, right?

Makes perfect non-sense to me!

Re: Law: Mend it or End it?

(dble minded pun)

Grace unto you, and peace,
from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Indeed, by faith; but ye do err forget these things:
- law was given by Moses, but grace came by JC: Jn 1
- it's from faith(law) to faith(grace): Romans 1
- whatever is not of faith is sin: Romans 14...Gal 3
- it's faith --> hope --> charity: 1Corinthians 13
- ye are not under law, but under grace: Rom & Gal
- THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH: Galatians 3
- it's evident no man justified by law: Galatians 3
- if justified by law then fallen from grace: Gal 5
- if fallen from grace to law, Christ of no effect: G5
- do will of God precedes receive promise: Heb 10
- He taketh away law to establish grace: Heb 10:9
- faith not having works is dead in James 2

This with That = an oxyMORON = MIX contrary things,
when told to COMPARE spiritual things with spiritual,
and either make the tree good(grace) or corrupt(law);
Not "both good and evil", which the law is in Heb 5.

JK, Judas mixed the twain and notably "burst", so it's told us not to put new wine in old bottles lest it "burst".

JK, I see what your problem is. You are one of those CJ folk who know not JC is the only foundation laid to build on; Nor that CJ is mirrorly reverse of JC. Not to mention CJ is end focused on J: "division", and JC is end focused on C: "peace". Not to mention what you say is what they say in 1Thess 5:3, Peace and Safety in Law, which is followed by destruction.
If this is what you want, you may have it: Gal 1:8,9. If any man or angel bring another gospel, then let him be accursed by it. The curse of the law? Hell-o! Cursed every one that hangeth on a tree? Hell-o! If any try and fail to keep all the law, all the time, then they are all accursed? Hell-o! God hath not appointed us to (law worketh) wrath? Hell-o!

Contrary things cannot co-exist, not in peace.
So, of this and that compared, it's this or that.

That God: all light(grace) and no darkness(law)
That Spirit: the Lord is now that Spirit(Grace)
That Gospel: shall also be told ww, for comparison
That Jesus Christ: is come, came with grace & truth

You're looking at it through CJ, not through JC.
Eternal salvation & peace with God are "through JC".
Furthermore it's through Jesus-->Christ-->unto God.
When reconciled unto God, no need for Jesus or Christ.
Be ye reconciled unto "God", not unto Jesus or Christ.

Babe-->Child-->Man-->Perfect Man-->God is not a man.

God is not a man that he should lie(law) or die(law).

The God of ALL GRACE make you:
perfect, stablished, settled.

The GRACE of our Lord Jesus-->Christ with you-->all. Amen.

Re: Law: Full-Fill it!


Throughout this thread I have clearly addressed and put into perspective your list of justifications, but you continue to repeat over and over the same verses, which are used wrongfully in defense of your allegorical "This vs. That" pattern. I understand the place where you are at, and placing "This vs. That" is only the first step. I’ve been there and have come to it’s limits and boundaries. It is not the end and it will not bring you to the solution.

Throughout this thread I have been speaking from a perspective that eliminates the contradiction that you refuse to resolve. We both know God is not the author of confusion; therefore, the cause of any confusion is the folly of ignorance within ourselves. Search the perspectives and adjust your pattern until you find the one that eliminates the contradiction. That will be the right one. You cannot force-fit the “This vs. That” perspective on everything without running into contradiction, which is what you have done.

The Holy Bible does not think for you, but it does make you think. It is important to realize when it is time to stop dividing The Word and start to think from a different perspective; from one that unites The Word. Maybe someday you will look back on this thread and understand what I have been trying to explain, but until then you have made a mess of The Word to the point where even God is divided against himself.

Although we butt heads in our debate, I have enjoyed speaking with you in The Word.

Grace be with you.
John W. Kelly

Re: Law: Mend it or End it?

Dear John,
(lol at pun)

Grace unto you, and peace,
from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

First of all John, thank you for signing off with grace; Albeit uncertain grace, like the grace Noah found in the (plural) eyes of the LORD who commanded him different than God in the flood story. Not to mention you've Legalized it by wording it as a law: Grace BE with you. Amen. That's not biblical, but your perversion of grace you'd have me swallow. Not gonna happen, not then, not now, not ever. So I'll just end it properly, when I'm done speaking.

Yes, I agree to getting beyond divisional twain, to what's unifying; And I also do that in the God Shew portion of God Shew Org, "comparing" three things rather than twain. For charity never faileth is notably the greatest of three things; And what's greatest is neither greater nor great, but above both.

3. Greatest ... Grace (never fails)
2. Greater ... NT Law (oft fails)
1. Great... OT Law (always fails)

For example, let's look at 'above a servant': 'no more servant but a Son', which is neither of the two servants compared in Romans 6:

3. No more a servant, but a Son ... Grace (Unity)
2. Servants of righteousness ... NT Law (Division)
1. Servants of sin ... OT Law (Division)
Explained: http://www.godshew.org/AboveAServant.htm

So johnny, you obviously didn't review my web site, no, neither the home page nor the site map, for 'BEST of three things' is on the home page, and 'Above a Servant' is the first thing noted on the site map.

So then, let's end it properly, as it is written:

The GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ with you all. Amen.

Re: Law: Mend it or End it?


I feel compelled to respond because I do not want to appear as a false witness to others who may read your statement:
“Not to mention you've Legalized it by wording it as a law: Grace BE with you. Amen. That's not biblical, but your perversion of grace you'd have me swallow.”

The Grace I desire to BE with you is the same Grace that I spoke of earlier in the thread. The only Grace which brings us to perfection. The un-lawed Grace. The Grace from above. Grace --> Mercy --> Faith --> Hope.

There is only one Grace, whether it BE with you, or with you, or not with you at all.

Grace with you. Amen.

Re: Law: Mend it or End it?

Johnny K,

Grace unto you, and peace,
from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Please don't be 'compelled', for it's a law word.

My statement was for awareness, not condemnation.

Thank you for clarifying your sort of grace.
I'll stick with the grace that is sufficient.
That reminds me, to distinguish the two grace(s).
Note to myself: write two sorts of grace on TwainShew.

I notice you've taken up using my fwd indicator: -->.
But I would that you included charity, the greatest:
Faith --> Hope --> Charity: greatest of three things.
For without the charity faith and hope are incomplete.

Thanks for the offer of 'grace with you';
But again I would have it "with you all",
with "all" the KofG located within "you";
you being "the end of the commandment":
Love one another, as I have loved YOU,
which is three things in 1Timothy 1:5
- charity out of a pure heart, AND
- [of] a good conscience (purged), AND
- [of] faith unfeigned (no partialty nor hypocrisy)

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ with you all. Amen.