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just some interesting data and problems out of India

I thought I would share this because its interesting. A British horse society did some tests on the Marwari and Kathiawari through Dr. Cothran with Pryor Mt horses as the control group. As expected the Marwari was not related to the Pryor Mt horses by so many numbers....but it was not related to the Kathiawari by almost as many numbers. Both curled ear horses were not that related to one another. The Kathiawari was more closely related to the Spiti pony...a straight eared pony that was popular early on with the polo crowd.
The Marwari is more related to the Teke in this study.

The lady wants to test more horses and needs at least fifty samples from each breed. The Kathiawari breeders are all for it and offering hair samples, but she said the politics with the Marwari breeders, the horse being associated with Old Indian royalty and such, is a lot more complicated. A whole lot more complicated.

Considering that the Marwari was almost exterminated in the nineteen fifties, the Rajput has become fiercely protective of their horses and don't like to play well with one another. Reminded me of some other folks I know and love.

Of course I want them to do mtdna tests, but to quote the lady one test at a time Bev. It's easy to give advice when it's not your money out there. ;)

Re: just some interesting data and problems out of India

If the Marwari were almost exterminated, has their gene pool been reduced to the point that it is difficult to know what they are related to?

Re: just some interesting data and problems out of India

The Marwari since the early sixties has been selectively bred to be a qquality horse. the problem is the Rajputs are the caretakers of the breed and while there is a registry, there is still a lot of debate and in fighting going on. The Kathiawari has a bottleneck problem, but its unknown about the Marwari.

One of the things I do know is that three SB1 sabino stallions were among the horses saved so there are quite a few pure white and totally exquistie horses. I found that many of the breeders thought they were albinos...naturally I corrected them...LOL. And with good feed and care some of them are becoming quite tall, which my friend Manu Sharma thinks is TB influence, although one of the few dna tests done of the breed puts it in the same family group as the Akhal-Teke and Arabian. Oddly enough the Caspian pony is in the same family as the Yabou, a work horse. But then the Caspian pony's foundation sire was a work horse.

I also noted that a well fed Teke is not pencil thin and does bear a resemblance to the Marwari but with a very long back. I have my own theories on that but its not important.

When I write to folks in India as I did tonight, I always mention our horses. Of course after several thousand years and mutations, there is little relationship between the two breeds, but remember tobiano and SB1 sabino are hereditary. Once gone they can not reappear like nonSB1. The tobiano is proof that the Centum septem split occurred before the SB1 mutation. This is because Celtic horses came only in tobiano and never developed the sabino genes. Cross breeding with Clydesdales in Ireland and Scotland destroyed most of those old breeds, but the Kerry Bog and Icelandic (which is predominantly Irish) have no sabino genes.

The Choctaw and Cherokee horses are in my opinion almost pure Celtic. Only almost. the presence of the Lp gene and frame overo rules out pure Celtic.

America's Colonial Spanish horses are a mixture of many different breeds. the most common importation was the Marisemo, a breed almost identical to the Sorraia but for its color. Once it was a dark dun like the Sorraia, but also like the Sorraia it once came in more colors. The man who saved the Sorraia saved the duns, the Spanish kept the bays and grays. People do that.

Once upon a time Northern Spain was full of tobiano ponies. When people started saying they were inferior those ponies went to the slaughter house. Now blacks and bays exist in the Spanish ponies. And gait is gone in the Asturcon. I consider solid colored breeds as modern, and that's pretty easy to prove.

Manu told me something the other day that applies to many horse people, and I am all right with it, he was interested in saving the modern breed not what happened in the past. But I do have an open invitation to visit IF I EVER get rich and famous and can afford the plane ticket. I do not see that happening, but I am not writing it off just yet. Miracles can happen so says Jiminy Cricket.

Re: just some interesting data and problems out of India

I finally found the correct spelling of the wild river breed from Spain, the Marismeno doesn't even look like the horses I saw in a magazine years ago. They look like Andalusians now. You can not tell that they are supposed to be related to Sorraias.

And the ponies of Northern Spain are not the small elegant Celtic horses that the Romans admired so much that they called anything small and gaited ponies after the goddess Epona. Many of them have clearly been crossed with drafts to be meat producers. so very sad.