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Most endangered CS Strains?

Just saw on facebook that the Abaco horses are down to one mare.

Wondering what other strains are really low on numbers?

How many Belsky's are there? I know of relatively few. How about McKinley's??? Anyone have a guesstimate at how many are left in some of these strains?

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

I am sorry to hear about the Abacos, but it was inevitable. Can that brown mare be carrying splash white? I thought it was a dominant gene.

I think Golden Earth Girl is the last Book Cliff mare and King of Spain the last Book Cliff stallion.

I think the number of Cerbats is quite small, but I don't have even a guesstimate of the number.

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

To the best of my knowledge, we have the last three "sraight" mares from the Doc Gray herd. Doc got the best from Gilbert over several years, and after fe passed his family pretty much sent most to slaughter. We were fortunate enough to "save" several of them, and we're down to the last three girls. Any of the colts they had when we had a bunch we had to geld to be able to sell. But these three girls are straight and awesome to look at!

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

This is Golden Earth Girl last summer when we were delivering her from Brett's place to Karma Farms. Cool story about that. We had a place setup for her to stay while I was visiting family in DeSoto, MO on the way down. Well we got ahead of schedule and got there at midnight - obviously not the time to drive to wake someone up to see where they want you to put a horse. So I ended up parking the trailer in town in front of my Grandfather's house and slept with the window cracked open in the bedroom figuring if she started make to much noise I'd have to drive her out of the neighborhood. That mare did not winny or make any noise in that aluminum trailer that whole night.

I am pretty sure she is the last 100% Bookcliff mare. And King of Spain is the last 100% Bookcliff stallion. At least the Bookcliff blood is carried on (many of mine are about 30% Bookcliff breeding) in many horses.

As for Belsky - Karma Farms has My Dancin Kimberly, Ilo's Spanish Dancer, Ilo's Shakita Bonita, and I think one other. The Nelis family has Johnny America. I have My Dancin Katie and her daughter from this year My Darlyn Sadie. I found some Belksy's in New York but they are aged geldings. Duane White has Quarencia (sp?).

Anyone heard anything about the Yates line lately?

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

Duane does not own Querencia nor any other horses and no she is not for sale nor does she need "rescued". Thank you.

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

Sorry was not aware that she was not with him that was the last place I knew her to be - why the attitude no one said anything about buying or rescueing her. Just trying to figure out how many Belsky's are left.

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

No attitude, just facts.

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

Well why add the last part? You could have simply stated he no longer owned her - the rest may have been fact but was not necessary to state. Look at how you stated it - I realize that may not be how you meant it - but the statement is worded in a way that comes across as having attitude.

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

The Johnson-Yates strain,very low in numbers.The crosses are excellent, pure Johnson-Yates hard to obtain and carry on the genetics with out Line breeding.

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

I am not a fan of line breeding, although I know its really big in the ARabian horse world. North American Spanish horses descend from Spanish breeds if you could identify what breeds the lines descend from then you can infuse new blood. Unfortunately the ancient Celtic breeds of Spain are no longer purebred having been crossed with other breeds for alsughter.

But the point is all Spanish horses in North America descend from the same blood lines. Let's see was it Belsky who preserved Texas cowponies. These same Texas cowponies and Choctaw horses have Comanche blood, we know Cherokees got Texas ponies and went Nafter the second President of Texas, who placcard has been removed from Interstate 20...thank you....ainters

Brislawb and Painters have Choctaw blood. And Painters are very line bred.
My own experience with a Northern line Spanish horse has led to a lot of questions and doubts on my part.

Now in my opinion some lines are breeds. Sulphers could be both. Kigers are a breed but not sure if a line. The Cumberland Island horses listed as feral are a breed. It's all interesting.

When a breed or line becomes too frew in numbers it is better to breed to s related line or breed to preserve the genes and qualities of the dimished one. I hope that makes sense. The Russians once had a breed called the Strelet, a really nice crossbred ARabian. When it was descided that these horses could not be saved as a breed. they were crossed to produce the Tersk. A very nice horse in itself.

The North American Spanish horse is becoming more uniform. This is because fewer horses are being brought in from the wild. Now I am a fan of wild horses. Some of them have been living on their homes ranges for a 100 years, and even if they aren't Spanish, they are a breed in my opinion. No ranch horses have been turned loose in a long time. Those that survive have certain characteristics that help them survive where they do.

And as I always say....just me

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

I think careful breeding to preserve strains is needed. I doubt we can survive with out numbers without mixing strains. But it would nice to see outcrossing with crosses back - i/e taking a half bred and crossing back to a pure strain horse, etc. I am not a fan of strict line breeding - but I think in some cases if done right you get a nice type-y individual that you should then cross onto another strain, etc. not continue linebreeding. I am more concerned that some of the strains will cease to exist because there are not that many. My thoughts anyway.

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

FYI, are you going to inform us where Querencia is now?

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

Golden Earth Girl's 1/2 sister Year of the Cat (El Tigre Segundo/Little Corn) is also pure Book Cliffs. She is fine and still producing. She and Goldie are both 1996 models. Goldie is bred to Astral Traveler for 2014. Left Cat open this year. We have 2 Cat fillies: Glamour Cat by Cactus Jack and Queen of California by Tambourine Man. As far as I know Cat and Goldie are the last 2 straight Book Cliff mares, and King of Spain the last stalion.

But the HOA Foundation strain has a new member in CA: Shawnee Iocono bought Tiger Man (El Tigre Segundo/Liona) from us and he is out there now and safe in the family's hands. Shawnee is Rick Inman's daughter for you old HOA fans. Check out Tiger Man's picture in the new HOA newsletter in my article on feeding.

And I have to get pics of the Great Spirit's wonderful surprise for us yesterday: Phantom's Fancy Lady foaled a loud appaloosa colt by El Condor Pasa yesterday around 6 pm! "Condor" is by Timber Ghost (Beetlejuice/Little Corn) and out of Ilo's Shaquita Bonita. High % Belsky, with Book Cliff, HOA Foundation, McKinley/Romero and Yates plus Jones Foundation. Talk about rare strains! And loud appy color to boot!

Condor is now a gelding as his family just couldn't deal with his stalliion ways (getting out to visit the mares, not anything bad). Owners were afraid he'd get hurt, and it is certainly possible he would have. He was one serious escape artist! He has 2 "catch colts". The first is out of Lady in Red (Locomotion/Phantom's Fancy Lady). Lady is now a lovely 3 year old filly that Callie Widon and I co-own. he got to her last year as age 2. And now my new guy out of Lady's dam Fancy who was just over there visiting to get some deep grass after we weaned her 2012 foal. I was so disappointed not to get a foal before Condor had to be hurt--Fancy Lady, Condor and lady luck fixed that. Wait until you see "Smoke and Mirrors"!

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

Does anyone know of someone with a straight Doc Grey boy? I have two girls who's sire was a Doc Grey bred horse and dam is a Sulphur. I loved that boy so much, he was the best horse I'd ever had, and would like to bring that side out more in my next generation :)

Re: Most endangered CS Strains?

As for remaining Bookcliffs, there is also our lovely red roan mare Year of the Cat by El Tigre Segundo out of Little Corn. That makes only three left.

BTW, "Cat" has a daughter by Rowdy's brother Cactus Jack. She is a red roan with a super mane named Glamour Cat. Anyone need a very rare high % Bookcliff?

Incidentally we also have another Cactus Jack mare named Isis out of Choctaw Sunflower, she by Choctaw Sun Dance out of Abiba (Majuba/Dam Sorrel). Isis is a dark bay limited overo with appy characteristics and a dark star in her apron face. Like so many of Jack's, both of these young mares are small. Both were farm "keepers" but it appears now that I need to plan on eminent hip surgery. So we have to cut 'way back. These need conservators and would add lots with their superior old-time pedigrees and agreeable natures to a program that can use the smaller ones. Email me if interested.