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It's terribly easy to criticise isn't it. All that it requires is sitting on your **** and typing out a few lines of text.
Seeing as you disapprive of what KTM are doing why don't you tell us what YOU have achieved in bus preservation so we can all follow your great example. Or is it that YOU have done NOTHING but think you have the right to tell others what to do with their time, money and rersources?
If KTM hadn't taken in those buses would you have bought and restored them or would they have been scrapped for razor blades never to be seen again?
I have to agree with D.R. on this one. It is very easy to sit on ones **** and criticize. From the web updates there is a lot of progress being made at the moment, and best of luck with the KTM.
I too have to agree with D.R. and Peter, and I have to wonder as to who has the right to complain about how KTM spend their money, if that person has not given any money to KTM in the first instance.
It is only in this country that preservation can cause such ill feeling between people and groups, anywhere else where I have been involved, I have seen a sharing community of like minded individuals, who will come together, to help each other, but not here.
If Michael wants to spend his last pennies on a fence (or anything else for that matter), that is his choice. He has not asked me, or anyone else that I am aware of, for money or membership fees, and therefore is not answerable to me.
I wonder what alan has preserved, or is it just too easy to knock THE EFFORTS OF OTHERS. I have not always agreeed with what KTM have done in the past, or how it is reported, how some buses are treated, but at least they are still there in some form, and with the accumulation of parts, may in the future, be restored fully. After all if they were scrapped, there would be no chance at all.
Perhaps the people who constantly knock KTM should organise a working group and visit the site one weekend and give some help, then and only then should their opinions be listened too.
Michael has done a lot to save those buses, buses that simply would not be around today if it had not been for Michael's vision.
If all those people, instead of sitting around on their backsides all weekend and abusing Michael on the message board, got up and got down to the Museum to help out on working on the buses, or to work on a bus in particlar, then Michael would not have as many buses lying around 'Rotting' away as you all put it.
You all go on about not a single bus restored and fit for the road, well without going into too much, Michael is on the case here and has plans which will see certain buses kept in excellent & running condition, as believe it or not, there is people out there wanting to work on certain buses to see a piece of Irish Heritage saved. But i guess all the bad mouthers of the KTM could not possibly know this because, instead of being involved with the museum, they just critisize it without knowing what is going on behind the scenes.
As for too many buses, well in years to come when parts are hard to come by for a particlar type, where are they going to come from.??? Well, you could spend over the odds to get a certain part re-manufacturered, or you could collect the spares now for later when they will be needed, and boy........... has Michael got a lot of spares available for later when they will be needed.
If you are not prepared to help in any way, even if it is only to come down with a brush and sweep out a bus or two for an hour, then kindly stop critsizing.
I apresiate all your comments but my point remains,
why channel all the energy into gathering up wrecks and storing them in a field, when the time comes to restore them they will beyond repair
you dont need 14 KC buses you need only 1.
you dont need any National's they are not Irish buses
why are you colecting stuff from scotland that other people are already restoring over there.
This "museum" is becoming a dumping ground for other preservationists unwanted projects and crappy coaches that operators cant give away to anybody else.
look at all the uk museums you cant save everything
consentrate on a few unique vehicle's as they are ireplacable get rid of all the rubbish and spend the money on good undercover storage
also get rid of duplicate buses that other peopel have already preserved or restored
or else everything will have to be scrapped because they will rust beyond saving
P.S. i do have my own bus which I bought straight from service and I pay for it to be stored in a dry place and i am curently replacing the body panels myself.
i no the work that is need to preseve a bus. Mr grimes dosent have to collection jsut irish buses, the natationals arent irish so what. I think that it is good to see so may preserved, yes they may not be in rally going condition, there still preserved. and you no that they still be there
on your point about the 14 KCs well it would be better to see more in preservation that to be cut up.
it looks like there is alot off effort goes into the measuem.
but again. would you rather see more presevreed buses or scrapped ones. some of the buses at kells may look like a wreack but sometimes it is just a case of a bit of love and care and they'll look good as new.
and on your point about the buses from scotland. they dont have to stay in scotland to be preservaed, look at ulsterbus and citybus 4 or 5 Bristol REs went over to england. i dont see the point in critising the attempts made here. some of the buses are very rare and hard to get hold off
I really get annoyed when I read postings like this...
Alan, if you dont like what KTM or Grimes is doing, then why are you even visiting this site??? I would also be interested in seeing what work Alan has done, and indeed what bus he owns... because talk is cheap, pictures speak for themselves.
Everyone has their way of doing things, be it the right way or the wrong way, you wont please everyone. And whilst I have been highly critical and questionable of some of the KTM's actions and purchases in the past, at the end of the day it really is no one else's business but their own.
I can see the KTM's point as to why they are preserving so many vehicles - the bottom line is that it doesnt matter if they stay the way they are for the next 20 years, the fact of the matter is that they are at least preserved, so that in 15 or 20 years time someone will at least have a chance at preserving a KC or a CVH if they want to. If this happenned 30 years ago with the R's...?? it doesn't even bear thinking about! It doesnt matter how many there are preserved or what state they're in, what matters is that they are survivors and are there for the future.
However, the question DOES have to be asked... at what point does a yard of preserved buses that are in sound mechanical and body condition become a scrapyard full of hulks with no engines, windows, seats or even wheels in some cases! Whilst you do need 'donor' vehicles you have to draw the line somewhere... if you have 14 KC's why do you need 3 or 4 hulks... will 14 KC's EVER be restored??
I tend to agree with Alan's point that the amount of Leyland Nationals preserved by KTM is excessive, but as I am not a particular fan of these buses then I am bound to be a bit biased. But still, they all have their part in telling the story and have as much signifigance and importance as an Irish vehicle. As said with the KC's, they are preserved and are there for whoever wants to take them on as a restoration.
And might I add that as a private preservationist myself (totally independent of any museum) who has spent the last 18 months working on various projects I would not tolerate ANY outsider telling me what I should or shouldn't do with my collection, especially when they have neither helped with the restoration or even put any money towards it.
So in short, if you dont like what someones doing, tough luck. Deal with it. As for KTM if you dont like them, ignore them! Unless you are directly affected by their actions or are directly involved with their organisation (which for the record I am not either directly, or indirectly) then you have no right to criticise anyone, no matter who they are.
So Alan, lets see YOUR restoration project, because I am very interested in seeing it and I am sure everyone else is as well. I have KC48 restored as best I can to its Dublin Bus livery... and I am currently working on two others, so lets see yours!