Michael,

Can you at any point give me both body number & chassis number for Nottingham 645 (78-KE-560) as i seem to now have a conflict here.

Whilst over, one of the black vynils on 645 at the left corner below the windscreen was peeling off, so i pulled that part completely off to save it flapping around in the wind and coming off anyway. However, while pulling the vynil off, it also took a lot of the old paint off nearly back to the metal but revealed a fleetnumber of 571 underneath.!!!!!!

So now this raises the question about the identity of 78-KE-560. Comparing photographs of many of the Nottingham Atlanteans at the museum also tends to raise the fact that 78-KE-560 is indeed 571 and not 645 as thought.

Why, well look at the headlights of the older ones of 1974 & 1975 vintage and they are flush on the front in metal rims. However, the later examples (78-KE-547, ATV672T & 695) have a recessed rectangular partition on the front at each side which both the lights and indicators sit in. Unfortunately 78-KE-560 does not have this feature tending to indicate this is not a vehicle of 1978 vintage as which 645 should be, but of earlier vintage as what 571 should be.

So based on this, is 78-KE-560 actually ideed Nottingham 571 (OTO571M), and if so, then what is Atlantean 74-KE-527 as Kells also have this and this is quoted as being originally Nottingham 571.

Maybe, the bus was in an accident at some time and had the panel changed from the other bus. this could explain your fleet number under the paint

That thought had occurred to me but comparing photographs of 78-KE-560 with an example of 1974/74 vintage says that is not possible as:

1): 78-KE-560 has indicators mounted on the corners of the front panel, which 645 should not have but which 571 would have.

2): 78-KE-560 has no side indicators, or evidence of side indicators having been fitted on both sides of the vehicle on the bodyside on the O/S behind drivers cab and the N/S back from entrance door. If this is 645 then they would be in these positions.


http://images5.fotopic.net/?iid=ylgtwe&outx=600&noresize=1&original=1&nostamp=1
This is pic of 78-KE-560. Note that no rectangular recess exists on front around headlights and has indicators mounted on side corners of front.

http://images4.fotopic.net/?iid=ylgbnj&outx=600&noresize=1&original=1&nostamp=1
This is Nottingham 662 (XNN662S) of 1978 vintage. Note rectangular recess and body mounted indicator lights.

http://images4.fotopic.net/?iid=ylgwzl&outx=600&noresize=1&original=1&nostamp=1
This is Nottingham 672 of 1978 vintage, again note the headlight recess and bodyside mounted indicator.

http://images1.fotopic.net/?iid=ymrf6a&outx=600&noresize=1&original=1&nostamp=1
This is Nottingham 612 (MAU612P). Note that this vehicle does not have a recess for the headlights/indicator on the front and that headlights are flush on the front. Note that it has corner mounted indicators (missing though) but no body mounted indicators.

So as you can see, what is supposed to be 645 (78-KE-560) is showing signs of being an older vehicle rather that a vehicle of 1978 vintage.

This is not the first time this has happened with Open Tops in Ireland as i remember this happened with an 1973 ex Edinburgh Atlantean and a 1980 ex Grampian Atlantean were the ID's were swapped around making the older one seeming newer, while the newer one (which was going for scrap) seeming older.